Game Designer Interview: Matt Leacock

Designer Matt Leacock is on a streak – three years in a row, he’s had a successful new game earn a Spiel des Jahres (German Family Game of the Year) nomination – first for Pandemic, then Roll through the Ages, and now this year for Forbidden Island. Matt took some time out of his busy schedule to answer some questions for us about the nomination, cooperation games, and what’s next for him. Thanks to Matt for the interview. [Note: This interview was completed before the winners were announced for the Spiel des Jahres.]

Congratulations on your third consecutive nomination for the Spiel des Jahres. As an American, how do you view the importance of what goes on in the European board gaming world? What do you think of your odds this year?

It’s hard to say what impact the SdJ has on the American market. I think those in the hobby take notice but I’m not sure to what extent this affects domestic sales. All that aside, this has been absolutely thrilling for me. (As for the odds, I won’t hazard to speculate.)

I found that I much preferred Forbidden Island to Pandemic, for the theme and for the lesser complexity. Do you have a preference between the games? Was your goal with Forbidden Island to “improve” Pandemic or just to make a lighter, simpler, “Pandemic: the Card/Tile Game”? How do you view the relationship between the two games?

Despite some of the similarities in their mechanisms, I view them as fairly different games. Forbidden Island hits the spot when there’s less time to teach or set up or when I’m playing with a less experienced or younger group of players. Pandemic scratches a different itch–one where the additional depth allows the players to get really creative when they get stuck in a bind. It satisfies on a different level.

The nomination certainly helps, but already Forbidden Island and Pandemic are among the few modern board games I see at Barnes & Noble, Borders, and Target here in the U.S. It’s amazing to see someone gain that kind of commercial success that quickly in this industry. What do you think has led to this kind of market penetration? To what extent were you involved in making this happen?

Credit Gamewright. Their ability to crack into these stores was a major attraction when they approached me about creating a game for them. They also did a fantastic job with the art direction, price point, and the quality of the components and packaging.

Although I know you have a strong interest in the more famous European designers (Knizia, Kramer, Teuber), it seems that Pandemic has resonated with “Ameritrash” audiences on this side of the Atlantic that typically would not consider playing a Eurogame. Why do you think that is?

My best guess is because it has a strong story elements that appeal to that audience. The game doesn’t have much “chrome” to speak of — I love a good Euro and the aesthetics that drive them — but I think Pandemic‘s design is good at helping the players create a dramatic story together. As a piece of storytelling, I think the only thing that’s underdeveloped in the design is the resolution or “falling action” that follows the climax after the players discover the four cures. I attempted to address that part of the story with the “race to the helicopter” in Forbidden Island.

I hear a lot of arguing among gaming crowds about the proper etiquette in purely cooperative games about what’s appropriate to suggest to other players and how much you should say about what’s in your hand. What’s the appropriate etiquette and atmosphere if you were to sit down and play a game of Pandemic or Forbidden Island?

At the end of the day, I’m not sure why co-ops need to follow different rules than any other game. Play nice. Listen to the other people. Don’t be bossy. Pretty obvious stuff.

What’s the inspiration and goal for you of a game expansion? We’ve had Pandemic: On the Brink, as well as Roll through the Ages: the Late Bronze Age. On the Brink brought some significant changes and new scenarios to Pandemic, while the print-and-play Late Bronze Age seemed to be more of an “edit” of the original score sheet for Roll through the Ages. Can you talk a bit about the background behind these expansions? Should we expect a more game-altering expansion for Roll through the Ages or Forbidden Island in the future?

Tom Lehmann and I are wrapping up the testing of a new Pandemic expansion that we’ve been working on (on and off) for some time now. There’s a new challenge that can be added that changes the way cures are developed as well as some other goodies. Tom’s proved to be an invaluable partner in the development process and it’s been a delight to work with him again.

I’ve worked on other “ages” for the Roll Through the Ages line but they’re still in the earlier stages of development. I’d very much like to develop these further but the demands on my time have made this difficult to date.

Let’s talk more about Roll through the Ages. I understand that this game came about as the result of some sort of challenge? Tell us a little bit about that experience. Do you think your success here with that kind of structured development as a hint that you could design games as a profession – particularly after this three-peat of Spiel des Jahres nominations?

I’ve been gaming for about fourteen years now with a close circle of friends. One of them suggested that we challenge ourselves to design a complete game within the month of November. The constraints were simple: it needed to be a civilization-building dice game that played in under 45 minutes. We each showed whatever we had after the 30 days were up. I was happy with my entry and brought it to Alan Moon’s Gathering of Friends for further testing and development. FRED took notice at the convention and signed me on to produce the resulting game. Constraints help the creative process tremendously — they wouldn’t be a primary consideration into a career change for me. (As it is, I feel like a game designer at work: I take many cues from the world of game design at my startup Sococo where I’m Chief Designer.)

I can’t help but notice that your three most successful games have involved two cooperative games and a dice game with a low amount of interaction. Not to devalue these great games any, but will we see a design from you where we can kill each other, or at least block or outbid each other?

Perhaps! I’ve designed these before and enjoy them just as much (the interaction part — not-so-much the direct confrontation). Time will tell.

I have to ask about your 2009 game Power Kitty which I just recently found on the BGG Database. I have no idea what’s going on with this one – can you elaborate a bit on what this game is?

Power Kitty was a collaboration with my daughter. She supplied the creative brief and provided art direction. “There need to be kitties, doggies, bunnies, and mousies…” (I think I have my notes somewhere, written using one of her crayons.) She was 5 at the time, I think. My daughters are amazing. They have such different personalities (one analytical, the other an impressive storyteller) and are an absolute delight to co-design with.

Since you work in software design, have you considered working electronics into a board game design of yours?

No. I can imagine designing a computer game but don’t see the immediate appeal of a hybrid (board+electronic) game.

What’s next for you as a designer? Anything in the pipe you can share?

Keep your eyes on the Pandemic space. Other than that, nothing else to announce.