Game Designer Interview: Bruno Cathala and Ludovic Maublanc

When we last spoke to Bruno Cathala, he mentioned some upcoming work of his, including expansions for Dice Town and Cyclades, as well as a “game with a box that makes noise”. We know now that that game is PRRRT! and that the release of those expansions is getting close. To shine more light on all of those topics, we have another interview with Bruno, this time with co-designer of all of those titles, Ludovic Maublanc. Thanks to both for their time, as well as Stefan Brunell of Asmodée for setting this up and doing translations.

Though both of you seem to be fans of collaborative design, this specific partnership seems to have produced the most impressive and most lucrative games. What is it about your relationship that has produced such success for the two of you?

Bruno: First, we share a lot of common values, both in terms of boardgames – our favorites, the balance between tactics and luck, risk taking and interaction.  In the kind of games where we can “trouble” the opponents, at least a little, rather than playing alone in his corner – and in terms of life in general.  Ludovic is without doubt the author with whom it is easiest to work with as a duo: whatever subject and whatever the difference in perspective, he is always ready to try another route than that to which he originally thought, and dropping his own if he finds the new way more appropriate. Finally, I think we complement each other very well, and you can feel it without a doubt in our creation.

Ludo: In fact, Bruno and I are super complementary.  We open horizons that we would not have thought to explore alone. It’s funny how you can be stuck on an idea and see another person with a solution. Just an example, initially: the gods of Cyclades were always in the same cyclic order: Poseidon, Ares, Zeus, Athena, Apollo. It seemed logical and for me it was done – but when Bruno looked at the game system, he immediately saw that it was necessary that this order changes at every turn . Of course, it had to be done, but without Bruno I would have stayed on this idea without going further.

Though you’ll soon be expanding the base games of Dice Town and Cyclades, you just recently released your second stand-alone reinterpretation of Mr. Jack with Mr. Jack Pocket. What’s it like, revisiting old material in these two very different ways (expansion and stand-alone)? What different challenges do you face, and which do you prefer?

Bruno: It’s quite difficult to answer this question, because in fact, things just happens by themselves, without really being thought previously.

For Mr. Jack Pocket, for example, after the original Mr. Jack, the extension, and the New York edtion, I think that Ludovic and I were convinced to be done with the subject. That was it. Then one day while I was doing something totally unrelated to the game, I suddenly had this flash. I actually suddenly saw in my head characters positioned in a square with inspectors turning around. I called Ludo on the spot and then it became obvious to us, we had to do it. And we had luck, first because Hurrican followed us in our vision, and secondly that the public also likes the game. The challenge was high because the game had a reputation, and we had no right to disappoint. I often wonder if we would have been able to do this game if it had been a specific request of the publisher rather than something spontaneous.

About the more conventional extensions, again, it wasn’t requested by the publisher for a marketing project. It appears that Dice Town, like Cyclades, is a game that we continue to play regularly.  Games succeeding to other games, necessarily, there comes a time when we want and need more. Since it is our game, if we want more, we just do it!

Ludo: What I like about the idea of ​​stand-alone, especially in Mr. Jack in New York, is players do not have new rules to learn. The simple change of the power of the characters and the topology of the board gives a whole new gaming experience without forcing the players to learn new rules. I do not know if that’s what players want, but it’s something that I would like as a player. We could even imagine to do the same for other games – it was thought to make a Dice Town using the same mechanism but with a different board, different places, and different goals. And that gives a different game with different effects.

When designing an expansion, do you feel that it’s important to preserve the feel of the original game, or do you feel like an expansion should make the game into a brand new, hopefully better, experience? You’ve already co-designed an expansion for one of your games (the Mr. Jack extension) – what was that process like? What did you learn from that experience?

Bruno: I do think that an expansion should not break the overall game engine, the essence of the game. The expansion must be there to offer new ways, new challenges using the initial system. It must be an upgrade, not a revolution. The advantage is that, an expansion which is intended to already experienced players, you can go with a bit more complex rules.

Indeed, the first expansion on which we worked together is that of Mr. Jack. From my side, I learned through this experience how it is impressive that we look a game in a new light several months after release. I mean, we certainly would not have created this extension immediately after creating the first set.

Ludo: In fact, what is acceptable in the design of an extension is that it is for players who know the game well and can afford some complexities avoided in a basic game. Indeed, one thing we always keep in mind when designing a game is “keep it simple”. We try to remove extra details to simplify the rules for when the player will discover the game. In an expansion, we can afford to do something more complex because the players are “volunteers”, they wish an extension with “more” to offer, they will not be frightened by a complexity slightly higher than the base game.

We’d all love a bit of a sneak preview of these upcoming expansions. Can you tell us a bit about how the new mechanics work in Dice Town? What’s this second option available to players at each location?

Ludo: Basically, we wanted to introduce an expansion for a sixth player. But it was not enough to add a cup and five dice, because with the basic game system, there is always one or even two players who do nothing at every turn. The idea was to introduce, for each location, a second effect. The player with the most appropriate dice will choose the effect of his choice and the second will gets the other.

We had to find new effects for each location that are just thematically balanced against the “base effect”. At the Mine (9), we can now filter the water from the river to look for gold. At the bank (10), we can attack the stagecoach. At the General Store (J), one may prefer to go directly to Doc Badluck. At the Saloon (Q), we can recruit thugs who are a new element of game that lets you “cheat” with the dice. At the Sheriff (K), we can try to catch the bad guys on the run, and finally, at the Mayor, one may prefer to take the top card from the deck of deeds rather than one that is face up on the board. In this deck, you will find Ranches (land that earns points differently). Of course with the expansion, we find new General Store cards to play with new game elements and some cards to win points to counterbalance the power of the horse.

As for Cyclades, we’ve had several more hints about the expansion, but more details about the how the free setup and the sixth god, Hades, work within the game would be great… or anything else you want to share.

Bruno: The extension of Cyclades offers different “modules” that players are free to use completely or in part (of course, the true warriors play with all the rules!). Thus, you can find:

Free placement rules: A preliminary round of betting will allow everyone to choose their starting islands! (Your wife never told you that preliminaries are important?)

Hades, the god of the underworld, will make his appearance several times during the game, with his fleet and troops of the living dead!

New mythological creatures, including a magnificent Cerberus figurine.

Greek heroes that give access to new tactics to win.

All the other gods of Olympus, who come lend a hand to their fellow base.

In short: more profound, more aggressive, for even more legendary games!

More than anything, fans are probably wondering the bottom line: what are the prices and release dates for these expansions? When will rulebooks be available online?

Stefan Brunell from Asmodée answers this question for us:

For the Dice Town expansion, the release is scheduled for Origins (Columbus, OH – June 23-27). Stores will have them in stock at that moment. The MSRP is $34.99. Since the release of the game, for us it is definitely one of the most played games at conventions. A lot of games didn’t make more than six months, sometimes maybe a year on the spot, and that’s good for all gaming companies. This one was a very slow starter, and usually a slow start means people don’t want it. But each time, in each convention, it was always the easiest game to get people to play. And after several conventions, several prize nominations, and well-earned awards, the game still goes very strongly. That means one thing; gamers have to try it, and then they will know why it is a convention favorite.

For the Cyclades expansion, if everything goes well, it should be available for a release at GenCon in August. No MSRP is available yet.

I would also like to mention your other upcoming co-design, PRRRT… all I know is that it has a very noisy box. Can you tell us a bit more about this game?

Ludo: Initially, there was “Who farted?!”, A card game I made to have fun with my friends. It took several tries, several versions, even one that has been published in French magazine JSP. And then one day, Bruno said that Hurrican was trying to edit a new game in a noisy tin, like MOW. He thought about my “Who farted?!” game and proposed to rework the game and show it to the editor. So here we are working on this theme with a new system. I did not really think Hurrican would take it for their collection… but finally they said yes.

Thanks again to Bruno, Ludo, and Stefan for their time. I intend to review both expansions when available, as well as write a full review of Dice Town. Spoiler alert: it’s great, it’ll probably be even better with the expansion, and you can find out for yourself at Origins.